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vakondur



Number of posts : 33
Age : 38
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Registration date : 2007-04-22

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PostSubject: Morogrim Tidewalker   Morogrim Tidewalker Icon_minitimeSat Oct 27, 2007 2:57 pm

hi all!!

yesterday i find a very good movie about this fight,that is horde guild so we dont want to see the little gnomes fireballs Very Happy.this video is from a healer sammy perspective ,( 170 MB),download it u will see all the raid warnings, the positioning, boss abilities,everything.

if u dont know about this fight after this u will need this fight cos seems like not really complicated.

here is the link:
http://files.filefront.com/showdown+vs+tidewalker+filwmv/;6974345;/fileinfo.html
( u can reach it from :www.bosskillers.com btw )

the next link is not a movie,this a very nice explain about the boss abilities and the fight.if u combine with that video u can understand the fight easily.

here:
http://www.worldofraids.com/burning_crusade/raids/serpentshrine-cavern/morogrim-tidewalker.shtml

peace
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vakondur



Number of posts : 33
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PostSubject: again   Morogrim Tidewalker Icon_minitimeMon Oct 29, 2007 3:06 am

pls everyone see this movie above and read the info who will be on the monday raid(and many more ofc).thx

Ps.:important to know the "how-too"
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vakondur



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PostSubject: warning   Morogrim Tidewalker Icon_minitimeSun Nov 04, 2007 1:19 am

at monday : Morogrim.

everyone see this movie(or another) and read the tactics carefully pls.

whatch and learn. Very Happy
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judgef
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PostSubject: Re: Morogrim Tidewalker   Morogrim Tidewalker Icon_minitimeSun Nov 04, 2007 12:25 pm

the lineup for monday is not yet 100% set, I still need to decide on numbers of tanks and healers, still its in my eyes a progressrun the kind where we acctually aim to kill a new boss, this will also reflect who get drafted and not.

/judgef
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judgef
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Number of posts : 82
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PostSubject: Re: Morogrim Tidewalker   Morogrim Tidewalker Icon_minitimeSun Nov 04, 2007 2:20 pm

judgef wrote:
the lineup for monday is not yet 100% set, I still need to decide on numbers of tanks and healers, still its in my eyes a progressrun the kind where we acctually aim to kill a new boss, this will also reflect who get drafted and not.

/judgef

Lineup set.

8healers
1MT
2OT/Cats
2Melee
12ranged dps

/judgef
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Globlok

Globlok

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PostSubject: Re: Morogrim Tidewalker   Morogrim Tidewalker Icon_minitimeMon Nov 05, 2007 1:01 pm

There are several "official" tactics for this boss. Which one will we use?

I vote for every1 standing in a small group above and on one side of the ramp when adds spawn. Freeze them with traps and frost nova and/or pally use concecration. But since we have no1 prot pally as i know of, a pally without holy shield can get into trouble?

As soon as murlocs are fixed in place, every1 move to the other side of the ramp. Warlocks spam SoC (can start immideatly as the freezing begins). We should be able to get at least 3-4 away each which should be enough to kill them all (we are 4 locks today at least, ((4x3) x aprox. 1000 dmg).

Mages should avoid AoE to begin with to make it easier for healers. Also, SoC has a few seconds delay before it starts doing damage. If mages start AoE immideatly it will trigger SoC to explode faster causing us to get much less time to spam.

I don't remember if there is a possibility that one or more warlocks will be in watery grave when murlocs spawn. If so, start spamming SoC as soon as you are in range, dont wait until you get to the group.

As soon as SoC starts detonationg mages can back up with AoE to finish off eventual survivors.

Perhaps all 4 warlocks in the same group together with a shammy who use chain heal?

Any comments on this?
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Darksith

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PostSubject: Re: Morogrim Tidewalker   Morogrim Tidewalker Icon_minitimeMon Nov 05, 2007 2:29 pm

I would agree with all, other than the group moving away. Catching all the murlocks is going to be the hardest part of this fight. Watching the movie, the group stands point blank behind the boss. Since we have only issues with his frontal attack then we should be safe to stand RIGHT behind him. This will stop LOS issues of having ppl on the slope of the ramp and on the top.
The murlocks come in two packs of 6. One from the door way where the tank is standing and the others come in from the area below.
Since the vid is from the perspective of a watery grave healer. We can’t see the front pack being dealt with. But we do see the rear pack collected up by a warrior (thunder clapping) and brought in and amongst the group.
As you say Glob. Locks have already started seeding. I think it’s a case of holding fire for a few sec’s and then everyone nukes at once. That part I think is the hardest part for us. If people do it to early or don’t start at the same time. Then the murlocks are going to hit the closest agro’d person (mage/lock) and even though they don’t hit very hard. 12 of them do.
Also do we nuke one group and then the other? Or all at once?

The rest of this fight is a big healing challenge. No one is allowed to go below 4.5k HP because of earthquakes.
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Globlok

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PostSubject: Re: Morogrim Tidewalker   Morogrim Tidewalker Icon_minitimeMon Nov 05, 2007 4:27 pm

No1 should start nuking before you see the first CoS go off. When that happens all hell will break lose. A few atunement runs and we should make it. As i see it the murlocs are the only problem to this fight. The rest is easy.

If only all trigger-happy mages could keep their fingers off the AoE button for 3 seconds Wink
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judgef
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PostSubject: Re: Morogrim Tidewalker   Morogrim Tidewalker Icon_minitimeTue Nov 06, 2007 9:40 am

Pretty ok first run to the ugliest boss sofar. A few points of discussion.

1. Lineup, I suggest more aoe-casters e.g. Mages for next run.

2. How was the healing classwise would we need som other kind of healingclass or was 200shamans good?

3. Positioning of the murlocs, I liked the tact having them to the left of the boss, was it functional for the tanks to get them there?

4. Healing on graves, how can we improve that part?

5. Healing on OTs , we need the OTs to build more aggro on murlocs, say 3more seconds atleast is it a problem keeping them up? Should hunters/elems focus on a special kind of murloc and nuke, e.g. Warriors? and get a target macro for it?

6. Healing on MT, was it easier with warr or druid? How to avoid that stupid first attempt with Val dead in 2secs, Iirc that happened last week also Razz

Come on , need feedback on this one so we can improve it for next week, 83% is ok but we are aiming abit lower next run!!

/judgef
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Darksith

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PostSubject: Re: Morogrim Tidewalker   Morogrim Tidewalker Icon_minitimeTue Nov 06, 2007 11:57 am

I have a questions about the Murlocks. When they come running in they all follow a straight line too…. Where? Are they running to somebody? They can’t be running to different members of the group because then they would be running all over the shop from the start. The most likely theory that I can think of is that they are designed to run into the center of the group and then start doing their stuff.
That is IF nothing has dmg them to agro them. I believe that we must try the no fear approach. Why the hell is every one spread out? If the whole group stands in one 5 yard group. Then the murlocks are brought in amongst the group and nuked down.
If we stand behind the Boss, and I do mean nearly at his feet (yes I have range issues I know that). Then as the group at the front comes in. Warrior collects. Thunderclaps and shouts, Hunters exploding trap from the start (reason if we have initial agro we can take at least a few hits away from others). Then Nuke down Mage/Lock Aoe.
This should take no more than 3-4 sec.
By that time the second group should have arrived, all we do is rinse and repeat.
If we can’t deal with the groups separate. Then we will have to deal with them together in the same method. It riskier but ofc we have no choice.
If everyone is standing in a very tight group then there should be no problems with adds running off to kill someone and getting missed.
The problems I see are;
1) One person over agro’ing and getting hit by all the mobs at once. I know you won’t like the idea but if they are frost trapped in the middle of the group. Then they will only hit the person closest. And chances are that is not the same person.
2) Mana, AoE’ing is mana intensive. If we can fine tune an efficient method of killing them then we are sorted.
3) Time, we only have about 10-15 sec to do this in, otherwise we have no time to dps the boss.
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Modiano



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PostSubject: Re: Morogrim Tidewalker   Morogrim Tidewalker Icon_minitimeTue Nov 06, 2007 12:07 pm

As a mage my focus is on the murlocs. I think we have to improve the tanking and crowdcontroll of the murlocs. Been reading on many forums. this is the tactic i belive most in:

1). Get one of your holy/prot pally good tanking gears, and assign 2 healers on her (1 if she's prot).
2). Have her tank murlocs outside WG range. (use the heal life-tapping lock after quake technique to draw initial aggro)
3). AoE murlocs when the pally has aggro. (3 mages + 1 lock is enough as long as the murlocs are tanked)

Because you used one of your holy pally tanking and extra healers on her... you might find your raid need a good amount of healers though...
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Globlok

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PostSubject: Re: Morogrim Tidewalker   Morogrim Tidewalker Icon_minitimeTue Nov 06, 2007 12:23 pm

All I know is that i started spamming SoC, got 2-3 away and 5 seconds later i was dead.

I still believe that warlocks should have a few seconds to get SoC distributed before others start AoE'ing since SoC seems to have pretty much the highest amount of threat and if we send in a seed into some mob already taking damage it will explode pretty much immideatly and then all you hear is "glroglarglorgargl..." and your dead.

Pally tanking seems like a good idea to keep the murlocs in one place.
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straker



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PostSubject: Re: Morogrim Tidewalker   Morogrim Tidewalker Icon_minitimeTue Nov 06, 2007 12:27 pm

Thoughts from a druid:
Morogrim is plain melee and a high armor/dodge/hp druid is really suitable for that task imho. But warriors should work fine too.

Agroing murlocs is a more difficult task.
It should work fine to group them up and move them into right position if dps stays off them for 3-5 secs.
But then they really need to be frosted and aoed down quick, because when we multitank, our agro on each target is much lower then if we tank a single target. Therefore, when a mage or warlock throws a aoe attack they will get agro immedietly.

So the conclusion is that druid/warrior can be used to group murlocs up for the AOErs to start working with frost nova and then spam their aoe dmg attacks.
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boonnie

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PostSubject: Re: Morogrim Tidewalker   Morogrim Tidewalker Icon_minitimeTue Nov 06, 2007 12:52 pm

Pretty ok first run to the ugliest boss sofar. A few points of discussion.

2. How was the healing classwise would we need som other kind of healingclass or was 200shamans good?


I think 200 shamans was good, the murlocs takes alot of raidhealing, and that's a "shammyjob".
We also had 1 hoting drood, 1 spamming pally and 2 pretty priests on MT at all time, witch worked ok until the raidhealers started to die due to murlocs and we needed to switch targets and tank got less heals.

4. Healing on graves, how can we improve that part?

Was there/what was the problem with graves?
Too slow, too little, too what?
From a "getting trapped in grave"point of view I had no problem staying up without selfhealing more than taking a HS.
We also had a lightwell up, any inputs on that?

5. Healing on OTs , we need the OTs to build more aggro on murlocs, say 3more seconds atleast is it a problem keeping them up? Should hunters/elems focus on a special kind of murloc and nuke, e.g. Warriors? and get a target macro for it?


OT kinda went in the shammycategorie of healing, with a few directed priestheals on them.
Do they need more, Anty, Straker, what do u say?

6. Healing on MT, was it easier with warr or druid? How to avoid that stupid first attempt with Val dead in 2secs, Iirc that happened last week also Razz

1st attempt was just sloppy, we had so much else to figure out b4 start that we forgot the tactic on pull. Will make a note to myself for next raid.
(The tactic is the healers run in 2 grps, another tactic we will try is to stand behind Jud when he pulls to be in position from start).

Come on , need feedback on this one so we can improve it for next week, 83% is ok but we are aiming abit lower next run!!


Come on , need feedback on this one so we can improve it for next week! Wink

/judgef
/Boo pirat
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Modiano



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PostSubject: Re: Morogrim Tidewalker   Morogrim Tidewalker Icon_minitimeTue Nov 06, 2007 1:41 pm

Do we have a Pally with good stamina gear? Any Pally with Arena gear maybe?
I f we dont, then i suggest we try with strakers tactic. a druid gattering all murlocs just behind and to the side morogrim. And then have a frost nova rotation. And then locks spam SoC. Then mages finish them off. Would be great if we could have the murlocks close to morogrim so that he takes damage from AoE as well.
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Sloppyflesh



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PostSubject: Re: Morogrim Tidewalker   Morogrim Tidewalker Icon_minitimeTue Nov 06, 2007 3:41 pm

judgef wrote:

4. Healing on graves, how can we improve that part?
/judgef

I was on graves with Moo. I did some comparing to the video posted in the first post once raid was over, and it looks like the people in the video sent to water graves were at close to full health all the time. He didn't have to heal them until after they got damage from graves. Probably cause they had the fight down and timed it better/got AoE done faster or something, I don't know.

My problem was that people got sent to graves with low health. Even using my 1.5 sec cast heal I was often unable to find a person with low health in grave (need to check 4 graves) and heal them before they took damage.

I did find out that using healbot I could stand out of healing range of the rest of the raid, then once people got teleported to graves they'd come into my healing range and light up on the healbot grid, allowing me to get 2-3 1.5 sec heals in before they took damage. This means it will be hard to do any raid healing tho, maybe if I can time it and run just into healing range after graves and then out again right before next grave.

Using a pally to pick up the murlocs would be perfect for the water grave healer, since pally could stay at 50+ yards from boss to avoid graves but could still heal raid, and the grave healer could be 20-30 yards further back to be out of range of raid. The grave healer and pally could top up people going into graves, and when murlocs come the grave healer could spam heal pally after they aggro on him. The pally could also spam heal himself (earth shield would be perfect on pally, so the pally can use devotion aura or something instead of consentration aura). That means the grave healer won't heal raid at all, but he'd probably use a fair bit of mana spamming heals on pally anyways so we shouldn't loose too much healing.

If we do that, what class should be a grave healer?
On graves, my subjective score/class/abilities.
10/Priest/Shield+1.5 sec cast best heals
05/Druid/Would have to use 2 sec regrowths, can ES in a pinch
09/Shammy/1.5 sec cast good heals, can ES in a pinch
06/Pally/1.5 sec cast heal, but hits for less than priest/shammy, holy shock might help slightly

On pally tanking murlocs:
10/Priest/Shield+renew+big heals+25% armor proc
07/Druid/Lots of hots
10/Shammy/earthshield+big heals+25% armor proc
08/Pally/Big 2sec heals

Druids are good at hots/sustainability, not fast healing, so they're imo the worst class to use here. If a shammy in raid keeps earthshield on pally, then having a priest as grave healer would be best. A shammy should work well too since they would only have to heal some of the time, they are great burst healers but go oom too fast to use it usually. A druid hotting up the pally but staying in raid would work great as well, but I think they might run into trouble if they were alone on pally since they would have to pause the big heal to renew hots.

I'd use either a priest or shammy. Shammy would be good in raid for chain heal after earthquake, but priest is better at overhealing on tank to keep him up. With enough other shammies to cast chain heal I'd use a shammy, if AoE healing was lacking I'd use a priest without CoH.
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vomitus

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PostSubject: Re: Morogrim Tidewalker   Morogrim Tidewalker Icon_minitimeTue Nov 06, 2007 5:51 pm

think our bigger problem here is the murlocks.
what if a warr just thunderclap (draw agro on him) then run into the grp. mages (with their shield on) start aoe (arcane explosion). during this time locks use SoC witch detonates on impact cuz of the mages aoe. also paly aoe is good here

this way
1. warr is used only to take all murloks in one place (no need to be a tank spec warr)
2. mages will actualy tank the murlocks
3. SoC from locks will just finish them off and by the time locks overagro the mages all murlocks should be dead

one problem though. will the mages shield hold up the dmg? in my opinion it should. couple of mages aoe will just ping pong the agro

SoC is a truly agro factory. if we start aoe sequence we have no shield and to have priests to shield us is just to much.

pls comment on this from the mages point of view. is this doable? or is just one of my ideeas to see willow dead? Very Happy
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judgef
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PostSubject: Re: Morogrim Tidewalker   Morogrim Tidewalker Icon_minitimeTue Nov 06, 2007 6:04 pm

Atm we dont have a tankadin, therefor we need to wrk around that. Druid/Warr tanking seems fine to me.

I dont favor the idea hacing them frosted in raidgrp that will risc losing healers or caster due to upset murlocs going for closest target, I bet they all go for the same aoe´r and kill it in a snatch.

Another problem, MANAREGEN, around 85% Im almost OOM if I use expl traps and volley as much as possible, we need to wrk around htis problem too.

Keep it coming we are on to something here!
/judgef
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boonnie

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PostSubject: Re: Morogrim Tidewalker   Morogrim Tidewalker Icon_minitimeTue Nov 06, 2007 7:56 pm

I also had a problem with manaregen, witch I normally never have.
It could be the fact that we are new to this boss and there's alot of "panicheals" (guess it's about the same with dps), we dont know how to do it and how to get a good rotation for this boss going.

Tnx for the input Sloppy, will whisper you when time allows and work out something good Smile
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Willow



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PostSubject: Re: Morogrim Tidewalker   Morogrim Tidewalker Icon_minitimeTue Nov 06, 2007 8:06 pm

I watched the fight in a magePOV movie. In that the mage basically just spammed AE in the frost nova like Vom said. Although I think that tactic will require quiet some healing since the shield isnt much. Since we are only(if I've understood corecctly) firemages in the raid the one shield we have is weak and breaks down fast but more importantly steal 2mp for every 1hp it absorbs, and all aoespells are enough to make you go oom way to early as it is.

Regarding the manaissue. One thing I noticed was that when the murlocs wasnt up the mage didnt seem to do much damage on the boss, just mostly stood around regening mana. (this could ofc be because she was filming but I dont think so). So maybe if we assign some AoE'rs that will go all out on murlocs everytime and only help on the boss if the mana allows. The rest who are not assigned on AoE duty can pitch in if they see its needed and/or their mana allows. That way might also make it easier for the healers if they know wich of the overnuking mages/locks are going to take most damage.
Ofc that tactic might break if we dont get the murlocs down fast enough but it might be worth a try.
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Degaussar



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PostSubject: Re: Morogrim Tidewalker   Morogrim Tidewalker Icon_minitimeTue Nov 06, 2007 8:08 pm

If we have alot of pallys one week, I have reasonable tanking gear ive picked up from Kara and 5 mans, Im happy to try improve it abit if u want to try the paladin approach, atm i have around 10k unbuffed health some spell dmg and around 17k armour with Devo Aura. I'm more than willing to give it a go if we have 2-3 pallies in the raid.

On healing terms, i found the dmg on Anty and Val acceptable as i was able to get my 2-2.5 second heals of during the aoe phase on locks and such. One thing i noticed we failed to do on every attempt was group up, I accept hunters have range issues but seeing mages and locks spread all over the ramp doing their own bit of aoe... Need to keep the murlocs together to effectively dps them down, maybe assign a symbol to the lock leader (Like glob in the last raid) so every1 knows where to stand, after hunters lay traps if they cant dps murlocs stay on boss?

The key to this fight is controlling murlocs and getting them down asap, Pallies spamming Conc with RF on are perfect aggro drawers but like Judge said its not the only way.

I also had a problem with Mana regen but then i was spamming heals left right and mostly center Razz but like Boo said they were pretty much alll panic heals.

Alittle more control and we will have this fight np

afro
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Degaussar



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PostSubject: Re: Morogrim Tidewalker   Morogrim Tidewalker Icon_minitimeTue Nov 06, 2007 8:11 pm

Quote :
Regarding the manaissue. One thing I noticed was that when the murlocs wasnt up the mage didnt seem to do much damage on the boss, just mostly stood around regening mana. (this could ofc be because she was filming but I dont think so). So maybe if we assign some AoE'rs that will go all out on murlocs everytime and only help on the boss if the mana allows. The rest who are not assigned on AoE duty can pitch in if they see its needed and/or their mana allows. That way might also make it easier for the healers if they know wich of the overnuking mages/locks are going to take most damage.
Ofc that tactic might break if we dont get the murlocs down fast enough but it might be worth a try.

Maybe assign 2 AoE groups and take it in turns to aoe murlocs? When one grp is oom they wand mana back and grp 2 takes over? A thought but might not work if were low on AoErs.
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vomitus

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PostSubject: Re: Morogrim Tidewalker   Morogrim Tidewalker Icon_minitimeTue Nov 06, 2007 9:20 pm

indeed this fight is a mana conserve chalenge, but still think this murlock duty is for mages with help from locks. biggest problem is not the dps on boss (mele, dots can handle that). let's work ads and graves without focusing on boss that much see how it goes. as i've seen on the movie quite a semnificant part of dmg boss takes is from aoe so in my opinion the real boss in that fight are murlocks
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Xisten



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PostSubject: Re: Morogrim Tidewalker   Morogrim Tidewalker Icon_minitimeTue Nov 06, 2007 9:51 pm

Yeah .. In the movie Vom! Problem was our group didn't stand close enough to boss.. So he didn't get hit by any of the aoe.. Which was my point yesterday.. That we moved the team closer to the boss, so he got hit with aoe aswell ..

All in all - Aliiittle closer to boss would be niceness.. imo ofc.. :]

//Xisten
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judgef
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PostSubject: Re: Morogrim Tidewalker   Morogrim Tidewalker Icon_minitimeWed Nov 07, 2007 9:40 am

This idea popped:

Divide the raid in 2 virtual grps.

1 bossgrp 1murlocgrp.

If mages+locks go all for murlocs and hunter shams meleedps go all for boss, kinda like the curator fight, dot him up and nuke on him untill murlocs spawn then murlocgrp is all about murlocs, if we practise the frostnovas to perfection, close to boss and away from others I think we can make it happen, make sure we got a paladin in lockgrp for armor and a shdw in magegrp for mana.

Bossgrp wkrs the boss thruout the fiht maybe toss in some slowing traps on right position but mainly go on boss.

Need to run this thru my tactical advisor but the idea feels solid in my head.

/judgef
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